Emission engines...?

Nov 23, 2018 at 10:25 AM CST
+ 1
So I am looking for a bit of insight from people who have been running newer DEF engines, not deleted, and what their experience has been. Preferably owner operator types that have driven the truck since new and are not big on idling. I’ve heard all the horror stories but I have a pre emission truck that I’m growing weary of. I’m just wondering if everyone has had a terrible experience or if they are possible to live with if driven and maintained properly.
Replied on Fri, Nov 23, 2018 at 02:13 PM CST
my experience hasn't been to bad have a 485 Cummins up till last year having to start replace sensors have some wiring issues filters are alotmore expensive service for it is that great not like it used to be is more of a guessing game then anything now shops think they have it fixed and withing couple of hours/months depends di o. everything same problem could be back over all though not to bad
Replied on Fri, Nov 23, 2018 at 04:03 PM CST
+ 1
I am currently working for a rather large truck rental company delivering trucks to and from their shop..where they get many different engine problems..first if you can.. dont get an engine after 2007...second out of the different trucks..dont get a volvo engine..cummins has even with the x 15 still has some problems..and i hate to say it but detroit is the engine that has the least amount of problems.. and if the mechanics in shop bought a truck.. they recomend detroit..look I am a CAT man.. and running a detroit is a bad word for me..but they do seem to have the least ammount of problems...best of luck..and dont forget you can get a western star..and they arent a freightliner...
Replied on Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 11:04 AM CST
I just sold my 2015 Pete w/550 ISX with @ 325k on it. I didn't have any issues with the motor or emmisions at all. I'm in the proscess of ordering another new one and have no worries.
Replied on Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 04:27 PM CST
I have 7 Cascadias with the DD13 Detroit and have had very few problems with them. There will be the ocasional check engine light for a sensor or doser valve that you will have to deal with. A starter every 400,000 miles. Belt tensioner every 350,000 miles. Change the DPF filters every 300,000 miles without an APU and bout 375,000 miles with an APU. They are about $1500.00 for the filter kits and you can do them your self.Takes bout an hour and a half. Freightliner will charge you bout $800.00 to do it. At about 700,000 miles your "One Box" will probably go out and thats around $9500.00. Other than that, they are pretty good. We buy them new so we know them pretty good. We trade most at 500,00 miles to not deal with the one box issue. Delete is an option after the warranty runs out at 500,00 but we run to California so not an option for us.
Replied on Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 04:53 PM CST
Detroit is bad if you have the wrong things go bad. They have fractured rod and main caps. If you damage the bottom half of motor it's done. Im not going to try to explain the bad things on here regarding fracture technology, it needed to stay in racing. Filters for Detroit, at least some new stuff is crazy expensive. I leased some 2015 kw with Cummins motors. I turned them back after 9 months. I'll stick with my pre emmision stuff. Paccar parts are expensive and can be difficult to get. I'm not a cummins fan but easier for parts and more people know how to work on them than anything else.
Just my opinion.

Art Pfluger
Replied on Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 08:19 AM CST
I purchased a 2018 with x15 565 hp performance engine, what a disappointing experience, I also replaced my aging cat with 1.2 million miles on it hoping to have a good experience with this new series engine being bragged up for power and fuel economy. This truck on average is getting 4.6 to 5 mpg pulling 80000 on a belt trailer, basically loaded all day. The old 2002 cat would do 5.5 mpg, the thing that I really despise hearing the most about this new engine is that I should have known the mpg would be much worse because of emissions equipment, tell me why an engine that is 16 years newer should get worse fuel mileage, oh and by the way you also have to spend an extra $50 or more a week on def fluid to make this engine run "cleaner", also when looking at this engine from a business perspective I cannot see how it will be profitable to run after the factory warranty, the repairs for even a turbo can exceed 13k! I have already ordered my glider with a Detroit engine, light weight, better mileage, also clean burning, cheap repair. I would say from an owner operator point of view stay away from anything that has emissions, this technology has put many owner operators out of business not only from repairs, but poor mpg and added weight that cuts into an already tighter bottom line.
Replied on Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 08:19 AM CST
well I do know my cumming is running 5.9 for ifta all last year pulling a hopper but the heavier I load it the better it runs I'm also pretty particular to what filters I use and there's also a air cell intake spacer on mine everything is is just a 485/1850 18 speed with 3.07 rears hope that helps with ur 565
Replied on Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 11:22 AM CST
sorry, I was trying to ask this question to russ who sold his 2015 isx and is getting another emissions truck
Replied on Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 11:22 AM CST
would you tell us what kind of loads/weight you were pulling and what kind of mpg, Thanks
Replied on Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 01:49 PM CST
No experience but all that new chrome and stainless steel raises the next question Can you polish a 160k terd and expect anything different? If you have an older pre emission truck you would be better off spending money on it and driving the wheels off of it . Thats what i do and hey its not new but i can fix it without a fancy computer and i didnt have a payment on it for years already. I would like a new truck sure but i would look into a glider anything besides rubbish that California thinks we all need.
Replied on Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 07:53 AM CST
Pros and cons with all of them. I run 2 isx15 cummins 550hp. 12' Pete has 460,000 miles 13'KW has 300,000 miles
Replaced EGR cooler in both engines, supposedly Cummins has that issue fixed. Other than that just a few minor issues with a couple sensors.
Educate yourself on how the regen process should and does work! I just can't make myself buy a new truck with a 20 year old rebuilt engine!
You can buy a brand new Peterbilt or Kenworth with brand new Cummins cheaper than you can buy a new glider with a rebuilt CAT engine.

Replied on Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 06:36 PM CST
run a 2015 peterbilt 389 flat top pulling 90,000 with the cummins 550 isx for the last three years. only issue we had with it so far was somehow paper got into the def tank and plugged a filter and made a mess in the tank. We think it was vandalized at a truckstop while he was sleeping. Just bought myself a 2019 peterbilt 589 with the 510 paccar and 13 speed. I have only put 600 miles on it but so far pulling 90,000 with a hopper, she is averaging 6.4-6.6 mpg. They tell me at 80,000 lbs and once it gets broke in that it will be pushing closer to 7 or better.
Replied on Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 09:19 PM CST
+ 1
I just can’t help it.


Ha Ha heHeee. Ho Ho
Replied on Thu, Nov 29, 2018 at 12:50 PM CST
I appreciate the input from everyone. It’s nice to hear it’s not all terrible. Clint, what kind of mileage have you seen with the 389 over the last few years? Just curious on a comparison with the 579. I think my 386 gets about .8 better than my 379 running similar conditions.
Replied on Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 07:44 PM CST
Originally Posted by: JEFF PEARSON
Quote: "I am currently working for a rather large truck rental company delivering trucks to and from their shop..where they get many different engine problems..first if you can.. dont get an engine after 2007...second out of the different trucks..dont get a volvo engine..cummins has even with the x 15 still has some problems..and i hate to say it but detroit is the engine that has the least amount of problems.. and if the mechanics in shop bought a truck.. they recomend detroit..look I am a CAT man.. and running a detroit is a bad word for me..but they do seem to have the least ammount of problems...best of luck..and dont forget you can get a western star..and they arent a freightliner..."

Frieghtliner and western star seem to be good below the mason Dixon. At 10 and a 20 mph headwind
the heaters don’t cut it. They used to come with insulated coverall don’t know why they quit


Replied on Wed, Dec 05, 2018 at 08:49 AM CST
Originally Posted by: JEFF PEARSON
Quote: "I am currently working for a rather large truck rental company delivering trucks to and from their shop..where they get many different engine problems..first if you can.. dont get an engine after 2007...second out of the different trucks..dont get a volvo engine..cummins has even with the x 15 still has some problems..and i hate to say it but detroit is the engine that has the least amount of problems.. and if the mechanics in shop bought a truck.. they recomend detroit..look I am a CAT man.. and running a detroit is a bad word for me..but they do seem to have the least ammount of problems...best of luck..and dont forget you can get a western star..and they arent a freightliner..."

Hahaha! Nice one, mate! Truth spoken! Thanks a lot
Replied on Fri, Dec 07, 2018 at 07:47 AM CST
+ 1
Originally Posted by: DELBERT DIETZ
Quote: "Pros and cons with all of them. I run 2 isx15 cummins 550hp. 12' Pete has 460,000 miles 13'KW has 300,000 miles Replaced EGR cooler in both engines, supposedly Cummins has that issue fixed. Other than that just a few minor issues with a couple sensors. Educate yourself on how the regen process should and does work! I just can't make myself buy a new truck with a 20 year old rebuilt engine! You can buy a brand new Peterbilt or Kenworth with brand new Cummins cheaper than you can buy a new glider with a rebuilt CAT engine. "

Explain how is it cheaper to buy emissions trucks? It might cost you more for a glider but put it this way. Your rebuilt engine ( thats roughly as good as new) has 1/10 of the electrical garbage on it and your glider wont let you sit on the Washington dc beltway ( needing a $1000 tow) because some sensor went out and it cant inject bullfrog urine into the filter so it can pass gas. Now look at your missed load or loads while they fix the juice system. Then the idea of spending 10k for a new filter at 700k miles makes me shivver when you should have 25k saved up for an overhaul thats approaching fastly. Lastly if you want to trade your truck or sell for top dollar private good luck because i will buy a pre emission that wont give me near the headache and who in their right mind would buy an emission engine with high miles? sorry i had the time to vent so i did nothing personal here now
Replied on Fri, Dec 07, 2018 at 07:49 AM CST
well from 2011 to 2016 it was ruff for the customer $$$$$$$$ frustated ,towing ,down time, rentals customer mad, you name it we had it small cat c7 heads ,cams ,injectors, cool tank , sensers , regen , paccar motor all of them same def , regen, sensors, over heating , shuting down all the time thats any engine, cummins ,def issues bad, regen bad cooling isues , detroit dd13 not so bad a couple sensors issues regen once , volvo , next. 2017 to date, big cummins ,paccar , detroit not doin so bad we can deal with it for now , theses are engines we have for the over the road trucks , all of the constructions trucks that aare local were old school 90s to 06 no issues So on that note have a good day Merry Christmas Happy New year Peace Amen.
Replied on Fri, Dec 07, 2018 at 07:49 AM CST
How do you like that new truck after getting out of the 389? I sold my 15 389 and thinking about a 579 with MX and auto. I pull hopper so concerned that 579 is a little heavy. ( took a 99 W900 as a trade on my 15 and its only 17500 kinda hate to give up the weight for a new one)
Replied on Sat, Dec 08, 2018 at 05:26 AM CST
- 1
Originally Posted by: ANDREW WENGER
Quote: "Explain how is it cheaper to buy emissions trucks? It might cost you more for a glider but put it this way. Your rebuilt engine ( thats roughly as good as new) has 1/10 of the electrical garbage on it and your glider wont let you sit on the Washington dc beltway ( needing a $1000 tow) because some sensor went out and it cant inject bullfrog urine into the filter so it can pass gas. Now look at your missed load or loads while they fix the juice system. Then the idea of spending 10k for a new filter at 700k miles makes me shivver when you should have 25k saved up for an overhaul thats approaching fastly. Lastly if you want to trade your truck or sell for top dollar private good luck because i will buy a pre emission that wont give me near the headache and who in their right mind would buy an emission engine with high miles? sorry i had the time to vent so i did nothing personal here now"

Well Mr. Andrew,
You answered your first question yourself by stating a new glider will cost you more!! Second you stated a rebuilt engine is "Roughly as good as new" not new by a long shot!! You cannot buy a brand new crated pre-emission engine All rebuilds, no matter whether Cat Cummins or Detroit!! CAT will tell you their blocks are good for only 3 rebuilds. When you buy a 99' or older model rebuild how are you going to verify how many rebuilds have been done on that block?? Back to the emission engines. If your not willing to educate yourself on how these engines operate, then definately you for one should not own one!! I have replaced the DPF filter myself at a cost of $1200.00
Whoever told you 10k, you might ask what he had been smoking!! Lastly lets talk trade or sell. Just what is top dollar?? A high mileage emissions engine will cost no more to rebuild than a high mileage pre emission engine. Possibly less!!
P.S. Anyone making a statement "inject bullfrog urine into filter so it can pass gas" would not be allowed in my truck!! PERIOD
Replied on Sat, Dec 08, 2018 at 07:14 AM CST
+ 1
Originally Posted by: DELBERT DIETZ
Quote: "Well Mr. Andrew, You answered your first question yourself by stating a new glider will cost you more!! Second you stated a rebuilt engine is "Roughly as good as new" not new by a long shot!! You cannot buy a brand new crated pre-emission engine All rebuilds, no matter whether Cat Cummins or Detroit!! CAT will tell you their blocks are good for only 3 rebuilds. When you buy a 99' or older model rebuild how are you going to verify how many rebuilds have been done on that block?? Back to the emission engines. If your not willing to educate yourself on how these engines operate, then definately you for one should not own one!! I have replaced the DPF filter myself at a cost of $1200.00 Whoever told you 10k, you might ask what he had been smoking!! Lastly lets talk trade or sell. Just what is top dollar?? A high mileage emissions engine will cost no more to rebuild than a high mileage pre emission engine. Possibly less!! P.S. Anyone making a statement "inject bullfrog urine into filter so it can pass gas" would not be allowed in my truck!! PERIOD"

Andrew is correct. It's cheaper to overhaul a 99 engine compared to a 2014. Look at the labor alone to take the valve cover off on a 2014...

Also look at the trade in value of a glider, or an 03 truck. When I worked for case it was significantly more expensive to overhaul a def drinking iveco compared to the qsx Cummins, which is an isx with a different ecm tune. When AG went tier 4, everyone went to John Deere pre def or they rebuilt old tractors because they couldn't rely on def engines. Way cheaper to overhaul an 8.3 Cummins compared to a 6.7 iveco. Not saying these new engines are bad, they are built great, it's just the crap they do after the exhaust manifold. And it doesn't make an engine cleaner to increase the duration of the scavenging cycle and throw a vgt turbo on it, it's not less carbon in the exhaust, it's just dilluted by pumping high volumes of air through the engine during the scavenging cycle. It's just dilluted, not cleaner. Again I think these new ones are solid, but I'm on a budget and if an injector goes out on my 6nz, it's way cheaper to get going than a new one. And there's alot of old 855s still going strong with more than 3 overhauls. I think something that is driving up the price of a rebuild on old engines is simply that some of the parts aren't made any more. Again, I will likely get a def drinking truck in the next year or so, not bashing people who like their new engines
Replied on Sat, Dec 08, 2018 at 05:04 PM CST
he is running 5.5 to 6. he also has been pulling dry van at 80000 but his mileage seems to stay the same when hauling heavy with the hopper. probably because of the flat top and the wind resistance

Replied on Sun, Dec 09, 2018 at 09:52 AM CST
Originally Posted by: DALE HERMANS
Quote: "Andrew is correct. It's cheaper to overhaul a 99 engine compared to a 2014. Look at the labor alone to take the valve cover off on a 2014... Also look at the trade in value of a glider, or an 03 truck. When I worked for case it was significantly more expensive to overhaul a def drinking iveco compared to the qsx Cummins, which is an isx with a different ecm tune. When AG went tier 4, everyone went to John Deere pre def or they rebuilt old tractors because they couldn't rely on def engines. Way cheaper to overhaul an 8.3 Cummins compared to a 6.7 iveco. Not saying these new engines are bad, they are built great, it's just the crap they do after the exhaust manifold. And it doesn't make an engine cleaner to increase the duration of the scavenging cycle and throw a vgt turbo on it, it's not less carbon in the exhaust, it's just dilluted by pumping high volumes of air through the engine during the scavenging cycle. It's just dilluted, not cleaner. Again I think these new ones are solid, but I'm on a budget and if an injector goes out on my 6nz, it's way cheaper to get going than a new one. And there's alot of old 855s still going strong with more than 3 overhauls. I think something that is driving up the price of a rebuild on old engines is simply that some of the parts aren't made any more. Again, I will likely get a def drinking truck in the next year or so, not bashing people who like their new engines"

I don't bash any of the engines. Like I have said before, none of them are bullit proof. I stick to Cummins because they all have done me a good job including the 2 def drinkers I run today. I look at it if your in it for the long haul, you better stay up with the new technology. Old school is disappearing fast and the EPA is never going to back down.

Replied on Sun, Dec 09, 2018 at 07:15 PM CST
Way too many older places that can do older engines. Any farm repair place.
Even major cities have repair places

agree epa is not good for trucking industry

i would like to know the number of cars drivers on the road are drug tested. High blood pressure

vision tested. I am restricted for glasses when cdl is in use but not when driving a pickup or car

how many cars have to be inspected or pulled over for inspection on what seems a daily bases

trucks have elds limited to time on duty
but a person can drive as much as they want

seems like ooida and others just talk

Replied on Fri, Dec 14, 2018 at 07:46 AM CST
+ 1
I have a local machine shop that can machine the upper and lower counter bores on my cat. It's been half rebuilt by cat and complete in frame by me. at 1.5 it still passes the solar powered trucks if my block is good for ''3'' rebuilds that should put the truck well past the 3million mark. sooner or later the WHOLE truck will be toast and time to replace. but I'm going to keep running my pre emissions motor and kick the can down the road as far as I can. Maybe Trump will be able to disable the EPA like we do to there ''clean air'' motors. anyone ever follow one when it's time to burn one off. makes eyes water.